Remnants of Pre-Official Declaration 2 Theology in Gospel Principles
In discussing the Gospel Principles manual, some have noted that citations to Mormon Doctrine, written by Bruce R. McConkie while serving as a Seventy, have been removed, and have suggested that this decision is in some way significant. It is important to note that the 1978 edition of Gospel Principles only contained four references to Mormon Doctrine and none of the references were necessary to support any point of doctrine. The references “See Mormon Doctrine” were akin to saying “for more information, see Mormon Doctrine.” The 2009 edition does remove the “See Mormon Doctrine” citations, but the preceding text remains the same. In fact, other citations have been removed while keeping the preceding text intact.
What has not been considered is whether the particular language and articulation of teachings in Gospel Principles contain remnants of pre-Official Declaration 2 theology.
“Wherein do we differ? In the talents that are given us, and in our callings.”
Chapter Two contains the heading “We Developed Our Personalities and Talents While We Lived in Heaven.” In the flow of the chapter, it seems to come out of nowhere. Indeed, the manual will devote a entire chapter on developing talents (Chapter 34). None of the principles in that chapter require the premortal existence. The question “How have other people’s talents blessed you? How can your talents and gifts bless others?” thus seems out of place for a chapter on the premortal existence. What is the logic for introducing this idea and where did the idea come from?
The manual cites Alma 13 and Abraham 3, but neither passage of scripture includes the terms “personalities” or “talents.” Neither passage of scripture includes the concept of developing personalities or talents in the pre-existence. With respect to Alma 13, one could argue that it doesn’t refer to a pre-existence at all. Where then did this idea come from?
One clue may be a citation from 1978 edition, which was removed in the 2009 edition.
“We were not all alike in heaven. We were given different talents and abilities, and we were called to do different things on earth (See Discourses of Brigham Young, p. 51).” Gospel Principles 1978, p. 10.
Discourses of Brigham Young is a collection of sermons selected by John A. Widtsoe and published in 1941. Here is the selected quote by Widtsoe:
“We were created upright, pure, and holy, in the image of our father and our mother, the image of our God. Wherein do we differ? In the talents that are given us, and in our callings. We are made of the same materials; our spirits were begotten by the same parents; in the begetting of the flesh we are of the same first parents and all the kindreds of the earth are made of one flesh; but we are different in regard to our calling. 3:365.”
Unlike McConkie’s compilation of Joseph Fielding Smith’s teachings, Widtsoe at least provides us with the reference Young’s sermon in the Journal of Discourses. In the sermon, Young spoke on the gifts of the spirit enjoyed by the saints in the early days of the Church. An examination of the entire sermon reveals that Young is speaking about the gifts of the spirit we receive in this life.
“By a close application of the gifts bestowed upon us, we can secure to ourselves the resurrection of these bodies that we now possess, that our spirits inhabit, and when they are resurrected they will be made pure and holy; then they will endure to all eternity. But we cannot receive all at once, we cannot understand all at once; we have to receive a little here and a little there. If we receive a little, let us improve upon that little; and if we receive much, let us improve upon it. If we get a line to-day, improve upon it; if we get another to-morrow, improve upon it; and every line, and precept, and gift that we receive, we are to labor upon, so as to become perfect before the Lord. This is the way that we are to change ourselves, and change one another, pertaining to the principles of righteousness. As brother Joseph observed this morning, “Joseph must be Joseph; Brigham must be Brigham; Heber must be Heber; Amasa must be Amasa; Orson must be Orson; and Parley must be Parley;” we must be ourselves. What should we be, and what are we? I will take the liberty of saying a few words upon this. We were created upright, pure, and holy, in the image of our father and our mother, in the image of our God. Wherein do we differ? In the talents that are given us, and in our callings.” Journal of Discourses, vol. 3, p.365
The full sermon reveals that Young says nothing about developing personalities and talents while in the heaven. He doesn’t seek to explain “wherein did we differ?” Young is speaking about our obligation to use our talents to build up the kingdom on earth.
Why did the curriculum writers include this quote in a section about the premortal existence? The reason is because Widtsoe placed Young’s quotation under the heading “Pre-existence” in his compilation. Widtsoe has erroneously categorized Young’s quote, and the curriculum writers, using Widtsoe’s collection as a source, assumed the context. This explains part of the mystery, but it doesn’t explain this notion about “developing personalities” which still cannot be traced to any source cited in the chapter or any scriptural reference.
Developing Personalities and Talents in Premortality
These ideas can be readily traced to statements by Joseph Fielding Smith and Bruce R. McConkie, which were made before the priesthood ban was lifted. Joseph Fielding Smith wrote in particular:
“The spirits of men were created with different dispositions and likes and talents. Some evidently were mechanically inclined, from them have come our inventors. Some loved music and hence they have become great musicians. We evidently brought to this world some if not all of the inclinations and talents that we had there. The fact that one person finds one bent, like mathematics easy and another finds it difficult, may, in my judgment, be traced to the spirit existence. So with other talents and skills. It was these characteristics that enabled our Eternal Father to choose certain individuals for certain work on the earth, such as Adam, Abraham, Moses and Joseph Smith. The Lord chose Cyrus and named him one hundred years before he was born to perform the work assigned to him on the earth. It is my judgment that thousands of others were chosen for their special fields because they showed talents and dispositions in that spirit world.” Joseph Fielding Smith, Answers to Gospel Questions, vol. 5, p.138.
Answers to Gospel Questions is listed in the Books Cited section of the 1978 edition. It is highly likely that curriculum writers chose to simplify the language for their target audience and used “personalities and talents” rather than the original “talents and dispositions.”
This idea was perhaps most fully articulated by Bruce R. McConkie in his work the Mortal Messiah. While it was published in 1979, McConkie had taught the concepts earlier:
“Being subject to law, and having their agency, all the spirits of men, while yet in the Eternal Presence, developed aptitudes, talents, capacities, and abilities of every sort, kind, and degree. During the long expanse of life which then was, an infinite variety of talents and abilities came into being. As the ages rolled, no two spirits remained alike. Mozart became a musician; Einstein centered his interest in mathematics; Michelangelo turned his attention to painting. Cain, was a liar, a schemer, a rebel who maintained a close affinity to Lucifer. Abraham and Moses and all of the prophets sought and obtained the talent for spirituality. Mary and Eve were two of the greatest of all the spirit daughters of the Father. The whole house of Israel, known and segregated out from their fellows, was inclined toward spiritual things. And so it went through all the hosts of heaven, each individual developing such talents and abilities as his soul desired.” Bruce R. McConkie, The Mortal Messiah: From Bethlehem to Calvary, vol. 1, p.23.
Some Misgivings
The idea that we developed personalities and talents in premortal existence seems benign enough, and certainly reasonable. We seem to develop personalities and talents in this life, so why not teach we developed them in the past life? What is the harm in this teaching?
June 9, 1978. Those familiar with Latter-day Saint history know that it was this day that President Spencer W. Kimball announced to the world the revelation received the previous day, on the eighth, that “all worthy male members of the Church may be ordained to the priesthood without regard for race or color.” The Gospel Principles manual was published in the same year, 1978, but the writing had begun much earlier.
It is beyond the scope of this post to recount the history leading up the lifting on the priesthood ban, yet it is critical to realize that justifications for the ban universally appealed to the doctrine of premortal existence. The teaching didn’t just stop with saying we developed our talents in the premortal existence. It went further.
Many sought to explain that certain souls in the pre-existence developed their talents and spiritual capacities and thus merited the priesthood in this life, while others did not. Thus, the doctrinal architecture created a kind of premortal determinism, where race, place of birth, and all other situations are determined by acts made in a premortal realm that no one can remember. By placing the idea in the premortal existence, it was largely shielded from serious inquiry. Even after Official Declaration 2 was announced, many members of the Church continued to accept this premortal narrative in regards to blacks and the priesthood.
While the heading “We Developed Our Personalities and Talents While We Lived in Heaven” alone certainly causes no offense, I have reservations about this being the best way to introduce Gospel Principles. My misgivings partly stem from this history, but also it partly stem from concern that such a focus has the potential to undermine the importance of agency. It is not agency to teach that the specific circumstances of your life was decided based on your premortal talents and dispositions, on which you have no memory. This is more akin to determinism.
The scriptures say very little about our premortal careers, but unequivocally state that everyone who is born in this life “kept their first estate.” Yet, under the above view, the fact that some “kept their first estate” seems to have little weight as to their mortal life. If Cain was a liar in the premortal existence, then he was a liar in mortality. It was his disposition, his personality. Not only do you have to worry about the consequences of your bad choices in this life, you have to worry about all the horrible things you possibly did in the premortal existence that is the cause for the evils or limitations placed on you in this life.
The scriptures, however, do not teach that we merited specific rewards in this life due to premortal valiance or performance. While we may relish the notion that we have good qualities brought with us from the premortal existence, there is nothing to stop an individual, in moments of darkness, from accepting that weaknesses, negative qualities, learning disabilities or perhaps even tendencies and inclinations towards addiction were carried with us from the premortal existence. Such a pernicious possibility would undermine the fact that today is the day to choose God and that mankind indeed is free to choose.
Is there harm in teaching that we developed personalities and talents in the premortal existence? Not necessarily. Yet, it isn’t clear why this should be the focus of the lesson, and the scriptures do not teach such an idea.
There needs to be a more serious scrutiny provided for these ideas. Sources used in the manual are often based on misquoted statements, and are not fully grounded in scriptural teachings. And here, sadly, they seem to perpetuate the seeds of premortal determinism or merit based on premortal performance. Which teaching, historically, has not served the Latter-day Saints well.
Elder Jeffrey R. Holland, in an interview for the PBS program “The Mormons” was asked about the folklore in connection with the priesthood ban. He said:
Well, some of the folklore that you must be referring to are suggestions that there were decisions made in the pre-mortal councils where someone had not been as decisive in their loyalty to a Gospel plan or the procedures on earth or what was to unfold in mortality, and that therefore that opportunity and mortality was compromised. I really don’t know a lot of the details of those, because fortunately I’ve been able to live in the period where we’re not expressing or teaching them, but I think that’s the one I grew up hearing the most, was that it was something to do with the pre-mortal councils. … But I think that’s the part that must never be taught until anybody knows a lot more than I know. … We just don’t know, in the historical context of the time, why it was practiced. … That’s my principal [concern], is that we don’t perpetuate explanations about things we don’t know. …
We don’t pretend that something wasn’t taught or practice wasn’t pursued for whatever reason. But I think we can be unequivocal and we can be declarative in our current literature, in books that we reproduce, in teachings that go forward, whatever, that from this time forward, from 1978 forward, we can make sure that nothing of that is declared. That may be where we still need to make sure that we’re absolutely dutiful, that we put [a] careful eye of scrutiny on anything from earlier writings and teachings, just [to] make sure that that’s not perpetuated in the present. That’s the least, I think, of our current responsibilities on that topic. … Jeffrey R. Holland, Interview, 4 March 2006. (emphasis added). Full Interview here.
Hopefully, well-prepared and sensitive teachers will make sure to keep in mind Elder Holland’s concern: “my principal [concern], is that we don’t perpetuate explanations about things we don’t know.”
Further Reading
Armand L. Mauss, All Abraham’s Children: Changing Mormon Conceptions of Race and Lineage (Chicago and Urbana, Illinois: University of Illinois Press, 2003).
Anyone who has been around as few as two newborn babies realizes that we are born with distinct personalities, that we aren’t mass-produced plastic blanks stamped out in some premortal factory. Anyone who has read Abraham recognizes that the differences in intelligence, skill, talent, whatever, that are manifested in young children and grow ever marked with age, regardless of physical surroundings, understands that those differences existed before birth and are to some degree inherent in our spirits. What do you think we were doing during our pre-earth lives, anyway? You are reading race into the matter. The discussion in the manual is completely about differences between individuals, not differences manifested between races, something that is not even hinted about in the published material.
Well, I don’t see that the idea of “personalities and talents” being developed in pre-existence could in itself be twisted to make it so that others warrant fewer opportunities in this life than others, who, then, presumably were more righteous. I mean, if we do develop our talents and personalities, why could it not have gone on previously.
But, the canonized scripture only tells us that we kept our first estate. Not that our conditions here are a result of what we’ve done or learned (nor has anyone authoritative taught that other than JFS and BRM, and the latter had time to recant, after he was told what the Lord had revealed). I always thought, that whatever weaknesses I have, I should try to overcome, whatever personality traits I have should be improved.
I do, however, still think, that our conditions here are initially something the Lord wanted us to have, so we’ll be able to enjoy the full blessings he has reserved for us in eternity. And if anything will stop us from enjoying those, it is only our own choices. And whatever circumstances we’re in, we must choose according to our understanding, and no more is expected.
Moreover, we are different from each other. For one, poverty is sorely trying, for some, abundance of wealth. And, I mean not, what a person finds convenient for her- or himself, but how far it truly tests the quality of our character.
Dunno, I’m kind of an idealist, I guess, to begin with. But I am fifty this year, and despite a jumpy start, it seems I have learned some things, if not as much as I see I should have. So. I’ll just shut up for now.
Hardly. I believe Elder Holland approved the manual, as did all members of the First Presidency and Twelve.
There’s nothing wrong with the quotations.
Legacy, thank you for your comment. I’m providing a historical context for some of the language in the manual. Some of this history has been forgotten, and depending on the perspective, that is a good thing. I’m glad that you see nothing of race in the language of the manual. I hope no one draws that inference.
Regardless of whether or not the curriculum writers had this in mind when they originally wrote Chapter 2, I do believe that discussion and inclusion of this idea that we developed talents and abilities in our pre-mortal life seems very much out of place in this chapter. Much better to leave it to Chapter 34–”Developing our Talents”. After all, if Chapter 2 is going to emphasize that there is a veil which does not allow us to remember our pre-mortal life, then what good or importance is there in saying that we developed talents at that time, if we can’t remember them NOW. More important to focus on developing the talents we NOW have, and that comes in lesson 34 of the Gospel Principles manual.
velska, I appreciate your response. I agree that scriptures don’t seem to teach that our conditions in this life are a direct result of premortal performance. I also want to stress that I’m not saying the manual is directly teaching such a notion. I see remnants in the kind of doctrine used to support a notion of limitations, racial or otherwise, and I have misgivings that this is the best approach to teach Gospel Principles. I think the better principle is as you have stated: “And whatever circumstances we’re in” we have choices. I think we should focus on that principle, rather than trying to divine (beyond scripture) what choices in the forgotten past are the cause of the circumstances of ourselves and others.
RGary,
Are you of the opinion that every member of the First Presidency and Quorum of the Twelve took the time to read, ponder, review and check every sentence in this manual? With everything else they have to do in running a worldwide church, they did no such thing. Sometimes I think we ascribe superhuman time management capabilities to these men. I am sure that the correlation committee approved the manual and issued a recommendation up the chain for a final OK.
Clean Cut, thank you very much for your comment. You make a great point. Pedagogically, if we are going to teach that we can’t remember our premortal career (because then we couldn’t exercise agency), what is the importance of talking about our personality and talents during that time? It seems that BRM is saying we can know what our personality was then, because our personality is exactly the same now. But if that is the case, isn’t all of this redundant?
Why not just focus on developing the talents and gifts we have now? Why not just focus on this life as the time to prepare to meet God? And in terms of manual organization, why not put this in Chapter 34? I agree.
Michael, here’s how it works, using Teachings of Presidents of the Church: Wilford Woodruff as an example. The development process was described in a letter from the Church posted at Feminist Mormon Housewives. The process included the Curriculum Department (of course), but also: “Lastly, proof copies were sent to the First Presidency and Quorum of the Twelve for final review. Once their suggestions were incorporated, the book received a final proofreading and was then sent for translating and printing.”
Considering that Gospel Principles has been around for more than three decades, I think the real question is whether any member of the First Presidency and Twelve has not read each chapter multiple times. There were at least eight revisions prior to the current edition and I believe each of them was reviewed carefully, especially in light of the fact that the target audience all along has been investigators and new members. And now, in addition, all adults in the Church are going to spend two years studying it. But through all of this, Elder Holland (it is claimed) was powerless to remove certain offensive teachings that have been there all along — his suggestions went unheeded.
Or maybe he was just too busy helping to run the worldwide Church and didn’t have time to check the doctrine that millions of Latter-day Saints will be studying this year. You don’t really believe that, do you?
Michael and Gary, thank you for your comments.
Let me stress that I’m merely suggesting that Elder Holland’s statement is appropriate. “That may be where we still need to make sure that we’re absolutely dutiful, that we put [a] careful eye of scrutiny on anything from earlier writings and teachings, just [to] make sure that that’s not perpetuated in the present.”
I’m saying that we need to be careful about how we teach the premortal existence. I’m pointing out that historically, the premortal existence was utilized to support the ban on the priesthood and ended up in the creation of folklore. I’m noting that Elder Holland has stated “One clear-cut position is that the folklore must never be perpetuated.”
Now, am I saying that the manual perpetuates this folklore? No, I’m not saying that. Rather I’m suggesting that in the past, the language that we developed talents and personalities in the premortal existence has been inappropriately used. I’m pointing this out to raise awareness of this issue. I’m suggesting that we need to remember this and make sure it doesn’t happen again. If people have never heard about this, or think people think the language is fine, or the thought never occurred to them, then again, that’s a good thing. However, if you are like me and are interested in the history of how ideas get passed on in pedagogical materials, then you may find my post interesting.
R. Gary,
Your response isn’t a response at all.
The original post pointed out numerous issues.
But instead of addressing those issues, you deflect the subject by huffily stating “well the prophet said so.”
Yeah?
So what?
I’m only interested in hearing the content of the arguments addressed. I don’t really care about these appeals to authority.
I think you are correct, we as members need to be careful not to twist the scriptures, or statements of the prophets into some strange view that “different abilities” amongst spirits can be equated with “not as good” as other spirits. But I don’t think we would be well served by dodging the topic entirely, simply because some people have misused these scriptures and prophetic statements in the past.
In point of fact, the scriptures do teach that we had developed and/or intrinsically possess different abilities (or talents if some decide to use that particular word) in the pre-existence. The Gospel Principles manual listed several of the scriptures that support this idea. I happened to teach this particular lesson in Relief Society this past week, and found discussion of this idea entirely appropriate for the topic of the lesson.
I am not certain how pre-mortal progression would entail absolute determinism in this life. And I do not see the statement in Gospel Principles lending itself at all to the idea that we are placed in given situations due to our progression before. In any case, it seems currently impossible to determine fully why some are given easy lives and other hard ones. It seems more probable that greater spirits would be given harder lives if such were a determination.
Ultimately, depending on how one views God’s existence either within time or outside of time, the concept us us carrying some pre-mortal baggage can be useful in determining such things as how God knew to attach the small plates to the Large ones within the Book of Mormon, over one thousand years in advance. Or, of course, it may simply be a red herring.
#13. “In point of fact, the scriptures do teach that we had developed and/or intrinsically possess different abilities (or talents if some decide to use that particular word) in the pre-existence.” I’m simply not convinced that any of the scriptures themselves teach that “we developed personalities and talents in heaven.” The scriptures cited are performing a different work.
Now, I understand that so many people see this principle as so completely self-evident to the extent that the idea simply does not need to be grounded in scripture, it is obvious; simply a matter of course. I should point out that it was also obvious to many people in the Church before 1978 (and even after) that blacks did not have the priesthood because they clearly were not obedient and did not develop their spiritual capacities. This was seen by some as so completely self-evident so much that it was beyond dispute.
The topic of the results that can arise from certain interpretations of premortal life has been fruitfully discussed and most of the positions have been articulated. I highly recommend reading the discussion from Losers from the Pre-existence, Feast Upon the Word Blog, January 24, 2008. Note my comments at 5, 19 and 21. I feel I’ve articulated my strongest arguments and concerns there.
Seth, your question is unclear. The original post said, “Elder Holland’s suggestion has gone unheeded in the Gospel Principles manual of 2009.” Sounds to me like the original post has an issue with the manual.
Three times, as quoted in the original post, Elder Holland stated that in current publications we must “make sure” of something. If that particular something had been a problem in the manual, Holland was in a position to block publication. We know he feels strongly about this. And they, the FP12, had three years to work it out. FP12 including Elder Holland approved the manual. Remaining issues, if they exist, are not with the manual.
#14. Matt, I really appreciate you weighing in to the discussion. I completely agree that pre-mortal progression need not entail absolute determinism. Others, however, have concluded that race, place of birth, time of birth, all is determined as a direct result of the premortal life. Again, I’m not saying that the statement in the Gospel Principles manual must necessarily lead to a certain conclusion. Rather, I’m noting that if one examines the history, one will find that this species of statement was at home in an environment that produced the justification for ideas that later revelation overturned. I’m suggesting the remnants of such past teachings may be seen today. I’m merely suggesting we exercise care and proceed with caution.
Now, if it is the case as you say that it is impossible for us to know the whys and wherefores of why things are the way they are in this life, then what is the benefit of appealing to premortal performance as an explanation, especially given the lack of specific knowledge on the matter? It seems difficult for us to determine causality in this life as it is, let alone project variables yet further into a unknown premortality.
That is a good question aquinas. I can only respond that I have read “Faith Promoting Stories” of individuals who have taken great comfort in knowing that pre-mortal choices they made perhaps had some impact on their current situation. I know of one instance where a woman who had been the victim of generational physical abuse received confirmation in a blessing that she had been put in that situation because she would have the strength to end the abuse and not pass it on to the next generation. This had great significance to her.
The benefit is that then one can believe that mortal placement is not just random. Mortal placement is either random or it is not, and I have a hard time buying random placement. This would make God quite arbitrary. Sure, the criteria for martality placement may be complicated, but if it is not random then it must be based on something.
Also, why is everybody ignoring the money quote in this chapter. The Joseph F. Smith quote from the Origin of Man was prominently put right in front of this chapter. The Origin of Man was and is an important document from the first presidency. The Feast Upon the Word guys and you both ingonred this quote, and I think it is key to the whole chapter.
Eric, thanks for raising this concern. This concern was also raised in the comments of the post Losers from the Pre-existence comment 14. However, as I stated in response then (comment 21), I don’t believe it is the case that the only explanation for mortal placement is either 1) man’s premortal performance or 2) chance, randomness or arbitrariness.
The manual states “[God] has chosen the time and place for each of us to be born so we can learn the lessons we personally need and do the most good with our individual talents and personalities.” Yet, others have interpreted the principle to say “our prior actions have directly determined the time and place for each of us to be born” and God’s wisdom really doesn’t play a factor.
As to the Origin of Man quote, I haven’t ignored it. This post is only one in a series of about six posts that I originally envisioned. I have only been able to complete about three of the posts so far due to other demands. I intend to treat the history in a subsequent post.
aquinas, I don’t know if I mentioned how glad I am you are doing these posts.
Anyway, in defense of Eric’s statement:
1. God is wise and loving.
2. God choosing something has to based on some sort of criteria for it to be wise.
3. That criteria would be what our needs are, to be loving
4. Our needs are determined by our current situation
5. Our current situation is determined by our prior actions and the actions of our environment.
If we allow that our environment determines our placement, this smacks of determinism.
Again I’d say it’s not that we deserve the circumstances we’re in, rather it’s that we need, for whatever reason. We should also remember how many people are born in this world without any hope whatsoever for a life that provides them human rights. It may be that some just need the experience of mortality, and it is their oppressors, whose condemnation is sealed by what they do to them. Not that I think God wants to condemn anyone…
I’d say that, seen how the Lord promises to avenge the blood of Cain, if anyone would mistreat a person because s/he believes him/her to bear the mark of Cain, such person has not read the Bible! That alone should give us a hint that the “curse of Cain” talk comes from some other source than Revelation.
Matt, thanks for your comment and I really appreciate your support. I think these are important issues. As to your comment #18 I have mixed feelings. In the example you raise, I’m not sure how appealing to premortal choices is necessary to explain “that she had been put in that situation because she would have the strength to end the abuse and not pass it on to the next generation.”
Even apart from any mention of premortal choices, I think we have to be really careful when trying to tell people why they are suffering. It’s often common that well-meaning people try to explain why people face challenges or trials or sorrows. I know people who have lost a young child and are told that they had to lose their child so that they would learn compassion for others who have lost a child. It’s not very comforting. What is a mother to think when she sees other mothers who still has her child in her arms? They didn’t need compassion? In some cases, telling a person that they are suffering because God knew they could handle it could be considered extremely cruel. I know many cases where well-intentioned people do more harm than good by speculating on why others are suffering. Ultimately, it reminds me of the story of Job where everyone is trying to explain to Job why he suffers.
Rather than trying to explain suffering by appealing to premortal performance, I feel we would be better served by turning our focus to the Savior and his redemption.
On this, we totally agree.
I couldn’t agree more. I recognize that I have that unfortunate tendency to explain. I think sometimes — often even — suffering is a mystery.
Interesting post!
The concept that we determined our opportunities by our actions in the preexistence and that those actions influence our chance for exaltation has and is still taught withing the church. In a religion class at BYU, the professor (James Harris) told us about a stake president that committed adultery later in his life and lost his exaltation. He told us that the Lord knew even before the stake president was born that this would be the outcome and that he would not “make it.” He then told us that there were many in the audience that had hopes for exaltation and the Lord likewise knew (by individual) many who would not reach those hopes. When asked by a student how the Lord knew this, he cited the preexistence. When another student asked how we could know whether we were one of the valiant in the preexistance or not, he stated that one way was to look at our present situation. If we were born to active parents in the United States we probably were valiant. If not, then there was a significant chance we were not. I clearly remember a young man sitting next to me who most likely came from a home situation similar to mine( my parents were more than an active, they were antagonistic to the church). The young man turned to me and said “then why try?” Another professor made a similar argument stating that being born to an active family in Idaho vs. being born in Ghana was not a matter of chance but was based upon our actions in the preexistence. I frankly do not know what those two professors taught was true or not, but I have spent a major portion of my life with this gnawing feeling that somehow that my parentage indictates my spiritual inferiority and that I probably shouldn’t hope for too much in the next life. If you read enough, you can find just about any point of view expresssed by someone in our well documented collection of church talks and writings. I hope determinism is not church doctrine, but I guess I’ll just have to wait until the next life and hope for the best.
Uncertain, thank you for sharing your experiences with this teaching. This is the very kind of teaching I’m hoping that people will reconsider and really ask themselves whether this is the gospel, and whether this should be passed on to the next generation. The conclusion “then why try?” is often the only logical conclusion of such teachings. It undermines the principle of agency. The most damaging part of this kind of teaching is that it completely rejects the notion that this life is the time to prepare to meet God and that there is a Savior and Redeemer to atone for mankind, that we need to look to God and live. We will be judged not based on premortal actions, but based on our actions in the flesh as well as on the desires of our hearts. See Alma 41:3. If a teaching is true you will say to yourself: “It must needs be that this is a good seed, or that the word is good, for it beginneth to enlarge my soul; yea, it beginneth to enlighten my understanding, yea, it beginneth to be delicious to me.” Alma 32:28.
What I think we should be emphasising is that we had learned what we could learn in that state, so we had ALL progressed to the point where it was necessary to enter mortality. To my mind we can’t read /anyone/ who kept their first estate, and hence is born on earth, as having in any way sucked in premortal life. Personality sure, defects I don’t think make sense.
@uncertain- I’m so sorry that was taught to you. It is absolutely NOT doctrine. Everyone has the opportunity to access the atonement. This life is the time for men(people) to prepare to meet god. If it were predetermined then why did we even bother with the whole complicated mortality/ choice making/ agency business? This is the opportunity for us to make our choices and try to become like our father and mother in heaven.
Side note, I’ve always felt that being born to an LDS family was just as likely to signify that I needed to be brought up in it so as not to reject it without serious consideration, so the determinist view could just as easily and logically go either way. It’s still nonsense